US to impose new tariffs on Chinese clean-energy imports including EVs

I bet cheap EVs would spread adoption much faster than a government handout.
And I do not even mean we should let Chian destroy our auto industry.
Let the budget ones in, the profit margin is fairly low there, leave the middle and upper tiers for local makers.
 
That is exactly how third world countries does it today - and it ensures they stay third world countries as their own industries can’t keep up with global development, and importation is too expensive.
Amateur move from the US
I agree but only partially. CCP pumps a lot of money in most of their promising or otherwise in demand industries. If they are let in, then USA would at least have to put as much cash in our companies. I think there are good reasons why they don't, and that there are pros and cons regarding doing it. Chinese EVs are prices are low for this reason too, their government made them cheaper. And as I recall, some countries see it as unfair competition.
 
I agree but only partially. CCP pumps a lot of money in most of their promising or otherwise in demand industries. If they are let in, then USA would at least have to put as much cash in our companies. I think there are good reasons why they don't, and that there are pros and cons regarding doing it. Chinese EVs are prices are low for this reason too, their government made them cheaper. And as I recall, some countries see it as unfair competition.
That's the point everyone seems missing. China is a communist country and government directly subsidies all their potential expert products, at the same time ensuring their population works for peanuts and don't oppose any crazy idea.
USA can either do nothing and most US companies would bankrupt as supported by government competition is impossible to handle (and after they are dead then Chinese will raise prices and harvest benefits), raise taxes and use this money to support local companies same way China is doing resulting in reduce wealth of population, or impose import taxes to mitigate China government payouts.
China doesn't play fair on all levels, how people expect to treat this existing hybrid industrial war without any reaction?
 
Electric vehicles aren’t a solution to the climate crisis anyhow… so it doesn’t really matter.

Bicycling and reducing footprints of cities, investment in public transport, cleaning up the construction sector… now that’s where CO2 reductions could be found
EV adoption and reduced fossil fuel power generation absolutely are a contribution to winning the climate crisis.
But if EVs make them tear up, that last paragraph will have them on their knees begging for the rapture.
 
All Chinese manufactured green goods are made with an ungodly amount of low quality, therefore extremely dirty coal.
Roughly 30% of China's energy comes from Green sources while America is closer to 20%. China also has massive plans on expanding it's green energy production. I'm afraid America is behind most of the world in green energy and it's aging electrical grid aren't likely to help going forward. Even here in the UK, 40% of our energy comes from renewable sources and we're aiming for 100%.
 
Roughly 30% of China's energy comes from Green sources while America is closer to 20%.
Oops! 63% of China's electricity comes from coal, whereas most of the US's electricity comes from nuclear (zero CO2), hydro (zero CO2) and natural gas (1/2 the CO2 of coal).

Furthermore, your statement is true only if you replace the word "energy" with "electricity". China burns a *billion* tons of coal a year for uses other than electricity, such as producing steel.
 
Roughly 30% of China's energy comes from Green sources while America is closer to 20%. China also has massive plans on expanding it's green energy production. I'm afraid America is behind most of the world in green energy and it's aging electrical grid aren't likely to help going forward. Even here in the UK, 40% of our energy comes from renewable sources and we're aiming for 100%.
the nuclear energy is a green energy in my book. Especially with modern reactors, it is one of least intrusive tech available. Sure it should be paired with other green alternatives, and energy storage systems, but if you ever been in Beijing and had to walk in the industrial dust and pollution, this theoretical Chinese percentage advantage have nothing to do with one of the biggest smog in the world:
https://waqi.info/#/c/34.532/111.79/5.2z
 
EV adoption and reduced fossil fuel power generation absolutely are a contribution to winning the climate crisis.
But if EVs make them tear up, that last paragraph will have them on their knees begging for the rapture.
Well, my point is that current EV’s are incompatible with a sustainable economy. Looking at their carbon and material footprints they are still firmly stuck in the realm of the 20th century mass consumption mindset, and while they CAN be better than gas cars (emphasis on the can there, many are not), they are not a solution to anything. They are just a slightly less bad version of something we’re struggling with the consequences of today (gas cars).
 
the nuclear energy is a green energy in my book. Especially with modern reactors, it is one of least intrusive tech available. Sure it should be paired with other green alternatives, and energy storage systems, but if you ever been in Beijing and had to walk in the industrial dust and pollution, this theoretical Chinese percentage advantage have nothing to do with one of the biggest smog in the world:
https://waqi.info/#/c/34.532/111.79/5.2z
THANK YOU. I have been preaching nuclear energy every time someone says that we are facing an energy crisis, and luckily the science backs ALL of it up, the only issue is public perception. Ever since Chernobyl, and Fukushima the public has been sour on nuclear energy, but fact that a GRAM of fuel level urainium 235 can produce the same amount of energy as 600 TONS of coal.
 
This new tariff on Chinese clean energy is a tough call. Protecting US jobs makes sense, but it could hurt the environment by making EVs more expensive. We need affordable clean options to fight climate change. There's gotta be a better way to compete with China without slowing down the green movement.
 
That's the point everyone seems missing. China is a communist country and government directly subsidies all their potential expert products, at the same time ensuring their population works for peanuts and don't oppose any crazy idea.
USA can either do nothing and most US companies would bankrupt as supported by government competition is impossible to handle (and after they are dead then Chinese will raise prices and harvest benefits), raise taxes and use this money to support local companies same way China is doing resulting in reduce wealth of population, or impose import taxes to mitigate China government payouts.
China doesn't play fair on all levels, how people expect to treat this existing hybrid industrial war without any reaction?
Import taxes on raw materials not present in the US will only hurt local businesses - they will have to jack up the prices for their services and the end result is less import, less work for say construction companies, less jobs, and ultimately a steep decline in the economy.
It’s like peeing in your pants during a winter storm - you’ll feel warm for 10 seconda before it goes downhill.
The US should remove import tariffs for raw materials and use the additional tax gains from pre-assembled items to establish local assembly of hardware/other commodities.
 
the nuclear energy is a green energy in my book. Especially with modern reactors, it is one of least intrusive tech available. Sure it should be paired with other green alternatives, and energy storage systems, but if you ever been in Beijing and had to walk in the industrial dust and pollution, this theoretical Chinese percentage advantage have nothing to do with one of the biggest smog in the world:
https://waqi.info/#/c/34.532/111.79/5.2z
It would be much cleaner if our pretty advanced science coul find a way to turn that liquid they store in thousands of tons into clean water. It is not very clean the the byproduct of clean energy produces one of the most poisonous liquids that require special storage facilities and people guarding them.
 
Import taxes on raw materials not present in the US will only hurt local businesses - they will have to jack up the prices for their services and the end result is less import, less work for say construction companies, less jobs, and ultimately a steep decline in the economy.
It’s like peeing in your pants during a winter storm - you’ll feel warm for 10 seconda before it goes downhill.
The US should remove import tariffs for raw materials and use the additional tax gains from pre-assembled items to establish local assembly of hardware/other commodities.
The US should actually focus on searching for deposits, increase mining effort, and focus on importing raw materials from friendly countries. If US will be dependent on cheap raw materials from China they will continue to sponsor greatest rival.
China will copy any assembly of more complex items very quickly, will do that much cheaper, in larger quantities, and the state will keep sponsoring them to undercut the global market. At that moment US wont have money from import tax, wont have independent source of raw material, and the local assembly of hardware/other commodities wont be competitive with China. Therefore, drastically reducing wealth and meaning in world.
 
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It would be much cleaner if our pretty advanced science coul find a way to turn that liquid they store in thousands of tons into clean water. It is not very clean the the byproduct of clean energy produces one of the most poisonous liquids that require special storage facilities and people guarding them.
What liquid are you talking about?
As for what our science can do, just last example: https://www.techspot.com/news/102974-nuclear-fusion-edges-closer-reality-thanks-new-tungsten.html
as you can see, science do its science stuff. No worries.
 
What liquid are you talking about?
As for what our science can do, just last example: https://www.techspot.com/news/102974-nuclear-fusion-edges-closer-reality-thanks-new-tungsten.html
as you can see, science do its science stuff. No worries.
From Gogle:
The U.S. produces as much as 160,000 cubic feet (4,530 cubic meters) of radioactive material from its nuclear power plants annually—a number that spikes higher dramatically when old nuclear plants are decommissioned, such as Maine Yankee in Wiscasset, Me., in 1997.Jan 28, 2009

I gotta admit I havent checked for a long tiem how they handle fuel they power their reactors with today, I assume it is still in liquid form.
 
From Gogle:
The U.S. produces as much as 160,000 cubic feet (4,530 cubic meters) of radioactive material from its nuclear power plants annually—a number that spikes higher dramatically when old nuclear plants are decommissioned, such as Maine Yankee in Wiscasset, Me., in 1997.Jan 28, 2009

I gotta admit I havent checked for a long tiem how they handle fuel they power their reactors with today, I assume it is still in liquid form.
You keep losing me on 'liquid fuel' part. Rods aren't liquid.
But there is an interesting part with the radioactive material. This material is not made radioactive, it is just picked up. Then, it is put together, and used in the reactor so long that it become _much_ less radioactive, to the point, it doesnt produce enough energy. So, the overall 'radioactivity' of uranium in world actually decreases a lot thanks to the nuclear power plants;). It is enough to store them back in the places they were taken from, deep in uranium mines, where they will be actually less impactful than at the moment of their collection.
This fear of radioactive substances is kinda understandable, but at the same time very illogical. The coal plants produce much more waste, which is as radioactive, if not more than nuclear waste:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/coal-ash-is-more-radioactive-than-nuclear-waste/
Well stored waste from nuclear plants do not pose any danger, unless someone would like to go 800 meters below the earth surface and get some quality time around the concrete blocks which contains the waste. But that would be planned suicide, and there are easier ways to do so.
 
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Well, my point is that current EV’s are incompatible with a sustainable economy. Looking at their carbon and material footprints they are still firmly stuck in the realm of the 20th century mass consumption mindset, and while they CAN be better than gas cars (emphasis on the can there, many are not), they are not a solution to anything. They are just a slightly less bad version of something we’re struggling with the consequences of today (gas cars).
Look, I admit I overestimated the general publics ability to temper EV expectations just 8 years after they finally became an acceptable alternative.
All I would ask, and I should not have to, is don't expect miracle Earthly results from what is still a tiny segment.
EVs were always thought to be the future, not an immediate bandage with instant results.
 
You keep losing me on 'liquid fuel' part. Rods aren't liquid.
I assume he's talking about the vast bulk of radioactive "waste" -- which isn't high-level fuel, but simply the low-level cooling water and other materials around the reactor. Expose anything to a high-level neutron flux and it'll become slightly radioactive.

Of course, this material isn't actually dangerous -- you'll get a higher dose of radiation by moving from a low-altitude city like Miami to a high-altitude one like Denver, even if you built a home atop a few hundred tons of such material.
 
The US should actually focus on searching for deposits, increase mining effort, and focus on importing raw materials from friendly countries. If US will be dependent on cheap raw materials from China they will continue to sponsor greatest rival.
China will copy any assembly of more complex items very quickly, will do that much cheaper, in larger quantities, and the state will keep sponsoring them to undercut the global market. At that moment US wont have money from import tax, wont have independent source of raw material, and the local assembly of hardware/other commodities wont be competitive with China. Therefore, drastically reducing wealth and meaning in world.
I am pretty certain that there are other countries than China that has the raw materials - but we’re looking at ..decades to get production up, meanwhile you need to protect local companies, not punish them by taxing their goods to death
 
I am pretty certain that there are other countries than China that has the raw materials - but we’re looking at ..decades to get production up, meanwhile you need to protect local companies, not punish them by taxing their goods to death
I agree US (and EU) reacts very slowly to the changes and this is self - inflicted wound, unfortunately, but unless we want China get over Taiwan, Indonesia, Philippines and other countries in area with all the 'benefits' of social score and other slavery or genocidy enlightenment, then that is the cost of negligence.
Or go same rabbit hole and start government subsidies.
In short, you cant eat a cake and have a cake. US was treating China as cheap labour power for decades, and now the tables are turning.
 
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